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RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Sun, 18 May 2008 09:26:37 GMT

Found this...Thought it interesting about FACTORY ie Chrysler has a performance air intake kit using K&N.

"In the U.S. Chrysler markets factory-approved performance kits for some of its truck engines. The kit includes a K&N filter and the kit's use is covered under the factory warranty. Chrysler would not offer a kit such as that if the K&N Filter could not meet OE filter efficiency goals."

http://www.mopar.com/street/whatshot1000.htm

"In Japan Nissan markets similar factory-approved performance kits for a couple of models that are offered only in the Japanese domestic markets. Like the Chrysler, kits, the Nissan kits include K&N filters."

http://www.vettenet.org/knfilter.html

Keep in mind I haven't ever used a K&N filter....so I'm NOT on the bandwagon for them. Trying to get the FACTS and experience from others.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Sun, 18 May 2008 08:56:48 GMT

[quote][b]SemperFi-sh (5/17/2008)[/b][hr]i made no claims of being a scientist, i was just saying that you can erode your turbine blades if you dont have a good seal on your K&N....

that is all, carry on...[/quote]

Would this not be true of any filter??????

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Sun, 18 May 2008 08:54:37 GMT

[quote][b]Tuna Man (5/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]They did TWO different test on the K&N/AFE72....Course AND fine dust. Although they should of tested ALL filters with both medias.[/quote]

Exactly.......and I would have no evidence they "cheated" but it is a "classic trick" for this test and I suspect they did test the all with fine dust and didn't like the result. A dirty air filter(but not clogged) is actually a more efficient air filter than a completely clean one due to a thing they call "dirt cake". A build-up of coarse residue on the filter acts like a prefilter and actually increases it's filtering ability . Coarse dust is a very poor representation of real world conditions unless you are running construction equipment or racing offroad. Some heavy equipment companies like Caterpillar have designed their filters to take advantage of the "dirt cake" effect. I also think ISO 5011 actually specifies that you should use fine dust for automotive engine tests and especially with diesel engines. Now one can make the argument that the OEM filter is better because it takes advantage of the "dirt cake" effect and the K&N filters which are either a cone or a classic ring are not really designed to do so. But the reality is in the real world unless you are chasing bulldozers and earth movers eight hours a day you will likely never be able to take advantage of the difference.

Here is a little blog for you to read that might be interesting.

http://autoengineer.wordpress.com/

I also tried to link the Caterpillar site but apparently it is down. They have an interesting piece about their standard and high efficiency air filters with respect to the "dirt cake" phenomenon.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

SemperFi-sh — Sat, 17 May 2008 19:08:44 GMT

i made no claims of being a scientist, i was just saying that you can erode your turbine blades if you dont have a good seal on your K&N....

that is all, carry on...

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Sat, 17 May 2008 11:14:34 GMT

[quote][b]xl883lo (5/17/2008)[/b][hr]read my last post again........the fatal flaw was using fine grade dust on the K&N and coarse dust on the OEM types[/quote]

They did TWO different test on the K&N/AFE72....Course AND fine dust. Although they should of tested ALL filters with both medias.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Sat, 17 May 2008 11:03:29 GMT

read my last post again........the fatal flaw was using fine grade dust on the K&N and coarse dust on the OEM types

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Sat, 17 May 2008 10:58:07 GMT

Yes I read all of it and caught the flaw...If I remember it was the seal on the Purolator filter.

Answer: They not only used different batches of dust they used COARSE dust for the OEM and "Mainsteam" OEM replacements and used fine dust for the K&N. Go back and read the charts...they used BOTH course and fine on two filters one being K&N and AFE72

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Sat, 17 May 2008 10:38:15 GMT

Tuna Man,

Once again Clueless Backyard Engineers conducting Pseudo Science (being kind).:boo

At least they were dilligent enough about documenting their work to expose their FATAL FLAW.......Did you catch it???????????????:clap

Answer: They not only used different batches of dust they used COARSE dust for the OEM and "Mainsteam" OEM replacements and used fine dust for the K&N.:doh

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Sat, 17 May 2008 09:21:49 GMT

Long read...Plenty of graphs...interesting.

http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Sat, 17 May 2008 08:43:33 GMT

[quote][b]matthewy8 (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]thats the main point i was trying to get across. i realize that guy that did his tests didnt have a perfect setup but i used it as an example because it showed real world results of what would really happen if the filters were used and maintained like a normal person. you just said the k&n filter passed oil, isnt that one thing that is supposed to avoid so that it doesnt coat the sensors and cause them to fail?? IE: mass air sensor. and dirt particles arent the only thing that will erode the turbine fluids will too(the oil from the k/n filter) the reason i bring all of this up is because i have seen the damage first hand. and you cant say that the k&n flows better than the ford until you have seen actual numbers (and im not saying it does). ford has their own version of a cold air box out and if i remember right it flows better than the k&n and uses the same style of filter. I am not against k&n like i said a few posts back id probably still use it in a gas vehicle just not in a diesel. i just prefer not to use the oiled type of filters if i can avoid it because of the oil passing through the filters and into the engine.[/quote]

Like I said this is probably going to have to be a Ford versus Chevy or E-tec versus Yamaha argument. Not to be inflammatory but you sound like you have been brainwashed by the Corporate Ford Motor Company Factory Certified Technician Training Instructor.

The amount of oil ingested by a vehicle using a properly seviced K&N filter is INSIGNIFICANT. Like a few ounces every 100,000 miles. Oil can cause a mass air sensor to fail but there are thousands and thousand of cars running around (like my wife's 2003 with 110,000 miles) with mass flow sensors and a K&N filter that have zero issues. The amount of oil they "NORMALLY" pass will not damage the sensors and make them fail. Now if you have someone coating them with a quart every 2,000 miles you might have a problem but like Ron White says you can't fix stupid.

I don't understand why you would use one on a gas engine and not a diesel......Many have turbos or superchargers, mass air flow sensors, higher compression(for gas), etc.... so you are going to have all the same issues. For years and years we have been using oil bath/oiled filters on all kind of engines, diesel and gas, with no problems and did you also know they use K&N Oiled air filters on AIRPLANES???? Extremely expensive and you don't want it to fail..............check it out.

http://www.avlab.com/challenger.htm

All performance comes at a price and will shorten the life of your engine so to a certain extent your right. But your only other choice is to not do anything and live with what you have. I will again suggest that K&N filters in and of themselves will not appreciably affect the life of your engine and in most cases are a "more efficient" filter than the stock configuration (keep in mind they also make stock replacements) in both fitering dirt and passing air. Most people who would put a K&N on their vehicles are looking for more performance. If they are taking their vehicle off road or pulling a 16,000# boat they will abuse their vehicle much more and it is the abuse of the vehicle and other perfomance "enhancments" (like remapping, increased boost, etc...) that are squeezing the life out of those engines.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

matthewy8 — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:57 GMT

[quote][b]xl883lo (5/16/2008)[/b]

And this brings up a point that may partially reinforce your original statement......the K&N filtered truck may have their lifespan reduced but not because it is not a better filter but because by increasing performance via passing more air they are ingesting more particulates.[/quote]

thats the main point i was trying to get across. i realize that guy that did his tests didnt have a perfect setup but i used it as an example because it showed real world results of what would really happen if the filters were used and maintained like a normal person. you just said the k&n filter passed oil, isnt that one thing that is supposed to avoid so that it doesnt coat the sensors and cause them to fail?? IE: mass air sensor. and dirt particles arent the only thing that will erode the turbine fluids will too(the oil from the k/n filter) the reason i bring all of this up is because i have seen the damage first hand. and you cant say that the k&n flows better than the ford until you have seen actual numbers (and im not saying it does). ford has their own version of a cold air box out and if i remember right it flows better than the k&n and uses the same style of filter. I am not against k&n like i said a few posts back id probably still use it in a gas vehicle just not in a diesel. i just prefer not to use the oiled type of filters if i can avoid it because of the oil passing through the filters and into the engine.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Fri, 16 May 2008 06:48:28 GMT

[quote][b]FenderBender (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Tuna Man (5/14/2008)[/b][hr]

I figure that on my trip to Glacier National Park in June I'll put about 4,000 miles on the truck. At $4.50/gal and @ 10MPG my fuel consumption will be 400 gals and $1800.00. If I can get 11MPG the cost will be $1636.00, or a savings of $164.00. If I get .5MPG increase that is a saving of $82.00. Diesel will be more then $4.50 by then and out west. Looks like the filter change will be soon.[/quote]

Tuna Man, what in the world are you pulling with your ram to get that bad of mileage? My dad has 1996 2500 ram diesel 2wd 5 spd. manual tranny and used to pull a 30' 5th wheel (weighed 7500 lbs) and got 16 mpg. on long trips (flat land driving, not up mountains) He gets around 20-22 mpg when he's not pulling anything. How fast do you drive? I'd fly out there if I had to spend 1600 dollars in fuel![/quote]

2004 Dodge Diesel Auto Trans. Pulling a 37' 5th wheel (3 slides) with the kitchen sink if you catch my drift.:doh Average in ALL terrain.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Fri, 16 May 2008 06:26:13 GMT

[quote][b]matthewy8 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]Restricted or unrestricted it doesnt matter. That air still passes completely through the whole filter to get through the other side. so yes the stock filter has more filter surface area than the k&n does. Can you prove me wrong?[/quote]

Actually......yes I can. Think of it this way. You want to filter a dozen shrimp out ot a five gallon bucket of water. First using the material they use for the little bait nets I make a pillow case sized bag that will fit over the mouth of the five gallon bucket and dump the water and shrimp into the bag. Second I use 100 times the material and make a bag that will just fit inside a very long 2 inch pvc pipe. Funnel the shrimp and water into the pipe. Which one will flow water faster????? A little absurd but it conveys the issue. There is no difference in the ability of either one to remove the shrimp from the water. The first has greater unrestricted surface area and will flow more water the second has more filter media and can hold more shrimp but flows less.

[quote]If you dont like that example that I used then lets go back to the original question of this post and look at some tests that a guy did for himself. http://http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm here i think he tested 6 different filters. No this was not done in a lab but i feel like it gets the point across pretty well. The reason I used the diesel as an example is because the problem will be magnafied drastically because it uses a lot more air than a gasoline car does.[/quote]

This is the danger of listening to wannabe scientist and backyard engineers. I can immediatly see 2 fatal flaws in his work.......

1) Using color comparison.......the oiled filters are going to produce darker residue. He tries to dismiss this by saying K&N is trying to have it both ways but he misstates their answer to the issue. Oiled filters will pass an "insignificant" amount of oil into the system. Filtered particles and some smaller particle that pass the filter will be coated in oil and the will naturally be darker.

2)Now the second is a little different......he uses miles to do the comparison which will not actually measure a filter's ability to filter the air.You should measure the amount of air filtered. If a filter could be 40% more efficient but passed twice as much air it would still pass 20% more particulates into the engine. And this brings up a point that may partially reinforce your original statement......the K&N filtered truck may have their lifespan reduced but not because it is not a better filter but because by increasing performance via passing more air they are ingesting more particulates.

Last but not least if you want to improve your performance but are worried about high levels of dirt and sand or you want to extend you maintenace interval you should use this Filter for the Powerstrokes not the cone filter you showed earlier. Bottom line K&N makes a great product you just don't like them......Ford and Chevy.

[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/xl883lo/knpowerstroke/KN.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Input on K&N air filters

SemperFi-sh — Thu, 15 May 2008 13:16:30 GMT

for all you turbo diesel folks out there make sure you oil the filter properly and on a regular schedule, with additional considerations given to operating conditions. i say this because if you do not oil the K&N filter properly (ie too little oil), you can "dust" your turbo. Over time, the tiny particles erode the turbine blades, reducing turbine efficiency and may ultimately lead to catastrophic failure. If any of you out there are familiar with gas turbine engines (ie jet engines, etc.) you'll be familiar with this FOD (foreign object damage) concept. alas, I digress. I have a '97 Ford F-250HD 4x4 with a 7.3L Powerstroke, I added a LEER truck topper and a K&N filter and have seen my fuel economy go through the roof. I gained at least 5mpg. The two additions have paid for themselves over the past year. Just my two cents.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

FenderBender — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:31:55 GMT

[quote][b]Tuna Man (5/14/2008)[/b][hr]

RE: Input on K&N air filters

matthewy8 — Thu, 15 May 2008 10:56:32 GMT

[quote][b]xl883lo (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]

You are only half right...........you have the theory correct but the particulars with regard to the filters is completely wrong.The K&N filter even though it's outside dimensions are smaller actually has a much greater surface area exposed to unrestricted air to intake flow and better "total" filtration. You would have to cut the K&N apart and unfold it flat to measure the intake area and it passes less PPM of contaminants than a stock filter. The stock filter(and yes I have seen then before) is physically larger with more media but this only affects the volume of contaminants it can "hold" thereby giving it a longer service interval than the K&N. Now if people neglect their equipment and don't sevice them properely that is a different story and not the equipments fault.[/quote]

Restricted or unrestricted it doesnt matter. That air still passes completely through the whole filter to get through the other side. so yes the stock filter has more filter surface area than the k&n does. Can you prove me wrong? If you dont like that example that I used then lets go back to the original question of this post and look at some tests that a guy did for himself. http://http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm here i think he tested 6 different filters. No this was not done in a lab but i feel like it gets the point across pretty well. The reason I used the diesel as an example is because the problem will be magnafied drastically because it uses a lot more air than a gasoline car does.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Thu, 15 May 2008 10:06:46 GMT

[quote][b]matthewy8 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr

]how do you think those filters get better flow while still having the same surface area?? because the tiny holes that the air flows through in the filter are much larger. since its larger it allows larger dirt particles to flow through the filter. on a normal gasoline engine the air fuel ration is 14.7:1 thats 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel, thats what those filters were designed for. a diesel engine runs as high as 100:1 100 parts air to 1 part fuel. i dont know if you have ever seen a powerstroke filter but this is one

that whole thing is filled with filter media from front to back. now here is a k&n filter for the same truck (i am using an 03 6.0 powerstroke as an example)

now not only is the filter smaller than the original but its got much less surface area to use for filtration but it still claims to outflow the stock filter. theres only one way to do that and thats to have larger pores for the air to flow through in the filter media and that means larger dirt particles can get through. so to shorten this up a bit yes you will get better better performance but in my opinion much less quality filtration. and i used to think those filters were awesome until i started working at a dealership and saw the damage it does to those engines. and with an engine replacement cost of a 6.0 powerstroke around 10k (from a dealership) i would never want to take my chances with a filter like that. Remember i am only attesting to the diesel engines and that this is my own personal opinion.[/quote]

RE: Input on K&N air filters

matthewy8 — Thu, 15 May 2008 09:08:54 GMT

[quote][b]xl883lo (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]matthewy8 (5/14/2008)[/b][hr]k&n had its day, there are much better OILLESS filters out there.......... but whatever you do DO NOT put one in a DIESEL!!! it will drastically shorten the life of that motor.[/quote]

How so????? They have BETTER filtration than a stock air filter which should extend the life. I would suggest that any decrease in the engine life you might see in diesels with K&N filters on them have to do with abuse, neglect or other improperly installed/tuned performance products (Like people creating a severe lean condition when they try to remap for maximum mpg).[/quote]

how do you think those filters get better flow while still having the same surface area?? because the tiny holes that the air flows through in the filter are much larger. since its larger it allows larger dirt particles to flow through the filter. on a normal gasoline engine the air fuel ration is 14.7:1 thats 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel, thats what those filters were designed for. a diesel engine runs as high as 100:1 100 parts air to 1 part fuel. i dont know if you have ever seen a powerstroke filter but this is one

that whole thing is filled with filter media from front to back. now here is a k&n filter for the same truck (i am using an 03 6.0 powerstroke as an example)

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Thu, 15 May 2008 08:32:11 GMT

[quote][b]Knot a Yacht (5/13/2008)[/b][hr]......On many vehicles, if you simply over oil the filter just slightly, it will foul/dirty up your Mass Air Flow Sensor and cause you to loose even more MPG's....... [/quote]

Have you ever seen this????? You really have to go nuts with the oil to screw one up. I know of two instances where people had MAFS problems after installing K&N filters. The first drove on dirt roads regularly and wasn't cleaning/servicing his filter properly(dirt was the propblem not oil) the other one didn't read the instructions and had used an entire 8 oz bottle of oil on his filter each time he would sevice it. After he cleaned his intake and seviced it properly no problems.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

xl883lo — Thu, 15 May 2008 08:14:58 GMT

[quote][b]matthewy8 (5/14/2008)[/b][hr]k&n had its day, there are much better OILLESS filters out there.......... but whatever you do DO NOT put one in a DIESEL!!! it will drastically shorten the life of that motor.[/quote]

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Outawitz — Thu, 15 May 2008 07:05:21 GMT

Like I said, just curious. I'm a Chief Engineer & the boat I work on has Cat 3516's, 3412's, 3208, & 3306 ( I hate cats). I've worked on Detroits & EMD's.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

matthewy8 — Wed, 14 May 2008 21:16:30 GMT

[quote][b]Outawitz (5/14/2008)[/b][hr][i]"but whatever you do DO NOT put one in a DIESEL!!! it will drastically shorten the life of that motor." [/i]

Just curious, what diesels do you work on?[/quote]

i was a diesel tech at a ford dealership for 3 years and now i work on heavy duty diesel. why?

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Outawitz — Wed, 14 May 2008 12:02:47 GMT

[i]"but whatever you do DO NOT put one in a DIESEL!!! it will drastically shorten the life of that motor." [/i]

Just curious, what diesels do you work on?

RE: Input on K&N air filters

seminolewind — Wed, 14 May 2008 11:09:23 GMT

I don't think the K&N's are really worth the money unless you do the whole cold air intake with it then you may only see 1.5-2 MPG increase. As far as the chips and programmers go I have a Ford Powerstroke and have been reading up on the programmers the best one seems to be the SCT with a custom program created for either economy, towing and race. Horsepower increases are anywhere from 50-150. But you have to watch out with the Fords, the head gasket bolts are shit and will stretch under the increased PSI from the turbo causing the gaskets to rupture and maybe a warped head.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

matthewy8 — Wed, 14 May 2008 10:39:31 GMT

k&n had its day, there are much better OILLESS filters out there. i used to use them in my vehicles, but you have to clean them all the time. in my opinion the oilless versions that flow more air are way better and safer for your engine too and they are also reusable. i think fram makes one there are many companies out there now that make the oilless filter. but whatever you do DO NOT put one in a DIESEL!!! it will drastically shorten the life of that motor.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Outawitz — Wed, 14 May 2008 10:18:07 GMT

[i]"There is a trade off. It allows easier airflow witch will increase MPG by a % ( What % pepends on vehicle) It does this by opening the pores a little more and hope to use an oil to catch particles. A lot gets by them and it can torture your engine over time."[/i]

I've got an old Pathfinder with over 200K miles on a K&N-filter's never been cleaned.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

brnbser — Wed, 14 May 2008 09:34:39 GMT

Mark, the cold air is something you can do yourself and worth the money imo.

Boatjob, as for the programmers/chips. I've bought several from John at Speed Unlimited both gas and diesel. What I'm running right now is a Diablo Predator and they range from 100 to 150 hp max on some of the newer models ('07-08). I'm currently around 460 hp and 800 ft/pd torque and averaging 17.5-18.5 mpg around town with my Duramax.

If someone is thinking about running one of these, they are great but there is research and reading you need to do ahead of time. IE with the diesel programmers, it's pretty common for guys trying to tow with a programmer set on the max hp setting to burn up the tranny, rearend and turbo. You have to put it in tow setting to do it.......duh....but some guys just like the hp I guess.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Boatjob1 — Wed, 14 May 2008 09:05:17 GMT

Hello again Ron.

I was reading up on the chip and they make a statement in the instructions that with the chip alone (Diesels) they can increase HP an additional 120+ HP. I have no experience with auto and truck diesels, but you might want to give John Boyden a call. Tell him Tom Brewer referred you, he is a great guy, and will steer you in the right direction even giving you some options after finding out exactly what your trying to accomplish. This is all John does for a living, and I trust him like he's family.....

Speed Unlimited Inc

maps.google.com

210 N New Warrington Rd
Pensacola, FL 32506
(850) 455-1341
Get directions

RE: Input on K&N air filters

BudYsr — Wed, 14 May 2008 09:05:10 GMT

I use them in both my car and truck and agree that maybe there is about a 1mpg increase. I forgot about the oiling part:banghead I guess I need to do that, but how often are you supposed to oil them?

RE: Input on K&N air filters

H2OMARK — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:44:20 GMT

OK, I am totally stupid on the K & N Filters. A question for you guys out there with the diesels, is this something that I can install or does it need to be installed by someone else? Also, I have a 6L Power Stroke, will it do anything to the warranty? I would want the cold air intake and filter I think.

Mark

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Sysop — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:11 GMT

Check this guys link out Tunaman. He goes over several of the filters with stats to back his views up.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Wed, 14 May 2008 06:55:44 GMT

[quote][b]Boatjob1 (5/13/2008)[/b][hr]Funny you asked this (this just happened last week). Ron, I have several friends that swear by them so last week I went to another friend "John Boyden" that owns Speed Unlimited on New Warrington Road. I went to school with his son and have known John for almost 30 years. I have a 2002 F150 Supercrew with the 5.4 Triton (80,000 miles),and went to John with my usual 50 questions. After talking to him, I ordered the Cold Air K&N,and then got him to order the Cad back duel exhaust, and the MaxMicroTuner Superchip. Within 2 day all had arrived, so John set up Mike at Muffler Masters on Pace to do the duels. Once I spoke with Mike I got him to go ahead and install the K&N. I picked the truck up and took it back to John's place and he programmed the chip. I got in the truck,and it performed like a brand new vehicle. The performance was amazing, and I found myself having to back off of the peddle because of the ease of the truck reaching peek speeds in and out of traffic. I am going to run through 3 tanks of fuel (Johns suggestion) check the mileage and average for a MPG, but I can tell you already (after 3/4 tank of fuel) that this machine is running way more efficient than it was... If your interested, I can give you the final results once that 3rd tank of fuel is used. In my opinion, it is the best bolt on performance move that I could have made. Tight lines, T[/quote]

The Cad exhaust with the chip is what most likely gave you better performance. I'm thinking about the exhaust to go along with the programmer I bought for my two last trips out west. I highly recommend the chip/re-programmer for anyone who tows for any distance. I would be interested in your performance after your test runs. I probably didn't see much of a difference towing 11,000# in MPG but sure can tell you the performance with the programmer and without is like night and day. I tried this ONLY once...I got on it from a dead stop without a trailer in tow and could smoke the tires:banghead:banghead. Also towing my 7,000# boat I have to at times be careful starting off as the tires will break loose. Climbing up hills and attaining speed...well you can't compair...start hill at 60 and without the programmer..top the hill at 30-40. And with the programer start at 60 and end up at 60, that is with my 5th wheel in tow.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Wed, 14 May 2008 06:38:45 GMT

[quote][b]sniper (5/13/2008)[/b][hr]There is a trade off. It allows easier airflow witch will increase MPG by a % ( What % pepends on vehicle) It does this by opening the pores a little more and hope to use an oil to catch particles. A lot gets by them and it can torture your engine over time. But with fuel prices it may not be so bad. I had an F-250 7.3l diesel with one and it gained about 1 mpg but I was religious about cleaning it and oiling it. THat is key to having a vehicle with one, CLEAN AND OIL IT!!! everytime you change your oil.[/quote]

Dodges recommended oil changes are 15,000/normal conditions and 7,500 towing. I do a 7-10,000 oil change/normal, and change oil before and after a trip out west/towing. Would that suffice with the air filter cleaning and bath? If sooner intervals..what are they.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

Tuna Man — Wed, 14 May 2008 06:20:26 GMT

My Dad in Plant City, FL asked me to ask you guys about them. I was thinking of getting one for my Ram 2500 Diesel when the filter needs to be changed again. Thanks, I'll link him to our site.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

sniper — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:44:58 GMT

There is a trade off. It allows easier airflow witch will increase MPG by a % ( What % pepends on vehicle) It does this by opening the pores a little more and hope to use an oil to catch particles. A lot gets by them and it can torture your engine over time. But with fuel prices it may not be so bad. I had an F-250 7.3l diesel with one and it gained about 1 mpg but I was religious about cleaning it and oiling it. THat is key to having a vehicle with one, CLEAN AND OIL IT!!! everytime you change your oil.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

floater — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:34:22 GMT

i have a 12" round one on a 94 dodge ram 1500 it has made an improvement of around 1.5 mpg,when first cranked sounds like a jet sucking air

RE: Input on K&N air filters

brnbser — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:09:58 GMT

I buy the oil only and have been cleaning them with that Purple Power cleaner for years without any problems. How much oil to put on is definately important.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

bonita dan — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:06:21 GMT

Hit the buy it now button Ron,ya won't be disappointed. Just be careful not to over-oil the filter. The recharger kits are probably less than a new paper filter.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

brnbser — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:22:15 GMT

John at SU is good people, that's where I got the setups for the Detroits.

RE: Input on K&N air filters

bukshot01 — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:20:20 GMT

I have the K & N filter you buy from Advance Auto Parts, not the whole intake kit... On my 04 Tacoma, 3.4L v6 I gain about 1.5 mpg... But stock filters for it are $18 every 6000 miles, so $60 for 100,000 miles is a great trade-off

Justin